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Windows Office Hours: January 16, 2025
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Thursday, Jan 16, 2025, 08:00 AM PSTEvent details
Get answers to your questions about adopting Windows 11 and managing Windows devices across your organization. Find out how to proactively implement and monitor Zero Trust practices. Get tips on keeping devices up to date. Learn how to move forward with cloud-native workloads, even if you have on-premises or hybrid needs.
Windows Office Hours is our continuing series of live Q&A for IT professionals here on Tech Community.
How does it work?
We will have a broad group of product experts, servicing experts, and engineers representing Windows, Microsoft Intune, Configuration Manager, Windows 365, Windows Autopilot, security, public sector, FastTrack, and more. They will be standing by here -- in chat -- to provide guidance, discuss strategies and tactics, and, of course, answer any specific questions you may have.
Post your questions in the Comments early and throughout the one-hour event.
Note: This is a chat-based event. There is no video or live meeting component. Questions and answers will appear in the Comments section below.
Pearl-Angeles
Updated Jan 08, 2025
- Heather_Poulsen
Community Manager
That's a wrap for this month's Office Hours! We'll be back on February 20 for our next session. Click here to save the date and visit https://aka.ms/Windows/OfficeHours for future dates and times.
- Dom_CoteBrass Contributor
Here's a fun one - that is SUPER common in our business:
- Configure M365/Entra for phishing resistant MFA (=WHfB + FIDO2)
- Take an existing device and JOIN Entra through settings - accounts - access work etc.
- Sign in to Entra using FIDO2 key (WHfB hasn't been configured at this point). Success.
- Switch to new Entra / work account by signing in to it.
- Windows completely (!) skips the ESP and goes straight to desktop, which is not ready yet. Also, WHfB never deploys, despite it being a mandatory policy.
When we repeat the same process using a password and MFA, everything works as expected.
Why does the ESP not run in this scenario?
How can we ensure ESP runs as expected for the perfect desktop experience - using NOTHING but FIDO2 keys to onboard?- Hung_Dang
Microsoft
In the ESP profile, make sure the "Only show page to devices provisioned by out-of-boxy experience (OOBE)" setting is set to No, since you're doing a Workplace Join and not an Entra join/MDM enrollment in OOBE. Setting it to Yes should make the ESP display only when Entra join/MDM enrollment occurs during OOBE. Hope this helps.
- Dom_CoteBrass Contributor
Yeah - that IS off. As I mentioned, it works as expected when the join/enrollment is done with a username/password combo. It's just FIDO2 / phishing resistant that won't start ESP.
Btw, if we go through OoBE using the same FIDO 2 key on the same device with the same account, ESP runs as expected. Awesome deployment experience btw. 😉
As we are an MSP for SMB, most of our customers bring existing devices when they sign up with us. To minimize disruption, we never wipe+load, we just onboard their devices to their (new) M365 tenant, so they can keep their old user profile "as is" and go back to it whenever they want. Works VERY well, btw.So self-service onboarding existing Windows PCs is our most common scenario. Now that we switched to phishing resistant MFA, we need to ask them to sign in with a username/password combo just ONCE - when they sign in for the first time. That triggers ESP and deployment runs as expected.
(Side note, phishing resistant conditional access doesn't prevent username/password sign ins, it just ALSO asks for WHfB or FIDO2 on top.)
In case it helps and you're interested, I can provide the support ticket I opened a while ago about this.
The agent and their supervisor (both super helpful) said "it just doesn't work", after escalating this. (you'll need to DM me, the forum won't let me share the ticket ID here)
- Dom_CoteBrass Contributor
During the Enrollment Status Page ESP phase of device deployment (for example autopilot), devices will go to sleep and/or lock, if a screen lock policy gets deployed. This disrupts the deployment and ruins the user experience since they need to sign in again.
We target users with this policy, not devices because device policies often cause unexpected reboots during ESP.
Is there an easy way to prevent devices from sleeping/locking during ESP so we can ensure a smooth deployment?- Hung_Dang
Microsoft
The ESP consists of the "device" ESP, which is displayed during OOBE proper (i.e., before Windows logon), and "user" ESP, which is displayed after Windows logon. OOBE itself prevents the device from going to sleep. For the user ESP, there's no built-in sleep prevention, and so you'd have to go with work-arounds, like targeting a script to the device to configure sleep/lock (and have it run during the ESP), and undo that when the user reaches the desktop via another scheduled task.
- Dom_CoteBrass Contributor
Darn. I was afraid you'd say that. 😁
Where is the right place to provide this feedback to?
Given that the user phase usually takes MUCH longer (due to apps installing), it seems this must be a common issue. Is it not?
- Dom_CoteBrass Contributor
Configuring Windows device security according to Secure Score's best practice recommendations breaks casting / miracast. Supposedly, something in the network gets blocked (and there's a lot of it!) that stops miracast from connecting to managed devices.
I been totally unsuccessful in figuring out which network security setting causes this - and neither has M365 support been able to pin point this.
Can you provide some DETAILED documentation on which network prerequisites miracast needs to work?
Spoiler: Intel's documentation on it hasn't helped me either.- shin0933Brass Contributor
Hi Dom, we had to create a firewall rule that allowed the executable that Miracast uses to make this work for us. We have miracast working on Win11 AADJ devices managed by Intune.
- Dom_CoteBrass Contributor
I got that advice from support as well. Didn't work for us. Which suggests that it may not be firewall-related.
Security Center / Secure Score's network hardening recommendations go far beyond "just" firewall policies, which is a good thing I imagine.
Whatever is doing this disrupts a few external apps from accessing managed devices directly. For example, we can normally use the NFC on our smartphones to read our government ID cards to sign in to government sites. But the smartphone app also fails to connect to managed PCs. So we need to use a USB NFC reader instead.
Oddly, other apps such as a USB sharing software Virtualhere works just fine.
Ah well - thanks anyways.
- Sean_McLaren
Microsoft
Without knowing exactly which policies got set and what was blocked, my suggestion would be to look at your policies that would block any of the protocols used and ensure the firewall settings are not blocking or dropping communication between devices. The Miracast spec here details the protocols used: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecs/windows_protocols/ms-mice/9598ca72-d937-466c-95f6-70401bb10bdb . The driver requirements are also here, if you've had any driver updates, may be related to that as well. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/wireless-projection-pc-manufacturers Hope that helps.
- Dom_CoteBrass Contributor
Yeah, that's exactly what's happening. Secure Score gives excellent and detailed recommendations on hardening a few network settings. But one or more of them also break miracast. We tested: It's not a driver issue, as the same deivces work fine without the network / firewall policies applied.
I'll take a look at the specs you shared, didn't have those yet. Thanks!
- JupiterRoadOccasional Reader
What is the best way to managed devices centrally in the cloud when we have 20 different AD domains and we have several offsite users?
- Dom_CoteBrass Contributor
Confirming and building on Jason_Sandys comment:
You should seriously consider disconnecting all PCs from their local ADs and JOIN them to Entra/Intune/M365 only. Whether by manually disconnecting each PC and then re-joining (I doubt this is a good method for you) or re-deploying them fresh from the cloud remains to be seen.Hybrid management does not simplify things in our experience, it makes it worse. You have TWO environments to deal with now: AD + Entra/Intune. While ensuring they play nice with each other.
These days, MSFT recommends Entra/Intune joined PCs only - not hybrid joined, if any way possible.
Even with Entra join only, you will still have access to AD-based resources, but management will be fully centralized.As an MSP, I would strongly advise against a hybrid configuration.
I believe you'll be very pleasantly surprised at the new abilities you gain with cloud-only endpoint management.
- Jason_Sandys
Microsoft
It kind of depends on your goals and purpose of these 20 distinct domains as well as your current management state. Assuming a lot of things not in evidence here, you can sync your multiple on-prem AD domains successfully to a single Entra tenant which Intune will be linked to. The devices from these domains can then be either hybrid joined to this tenant or reprovisioned to be Entra joined to this tenant. In both cases, this will enable the devices to be managed by Intune.
- SweetenCopper Contributor
Why does Intune seem like it's been in alpha release for a decade? There are so many functions that are poorly labelled or with poor documentation (policies), have major undisclosed caveats (policy sets, Baselines), or have little visibility/easily consumable statuses (Autopilot, application deployment in general) compared to every other platform. Why does it take 2, 8, 24+ hours for most changes to sync or install automatically when every other platform performs these same changes in under 30 minutes, if not instantly?
As a medium-sized org, we don't have resources to hire an entire team to build out and craft Intune into a fully-capable and effective device management platform when it's so much more efficient to pay for additional products (PDQ, chocolatey, etc) that 1 person can manage part-time.
- Dom_CoteBrass Contributor
I can understand your frustration. Truly.
We are an MSP working exclusively with SMB and provide cloud-only M365 on enterprise level for them.
While Intune surely can use more consistency - we use it very successfully. It works!
Here are a few "work arounds" we learned that might help you too.
1. Refresh times are not determined by Intune, it's the OMA-DM client in Windows. It polls Intune for policy changes - Intune doesn't really push anything to Windows. The polling frequency is hard coded in the client. During normal operation it is every 8 hours, correct. This reflects the desire to minimize user impact by diverting CPU cycles, memory consumption and disk access. Also, imagine a network with ~5000 devices behind an internet access point. Too frequent polling will strain internet access as all OMA-DM comms go to the cloud. During normal operation, policy changes are (hopefully) infrequent, so frequent polling doesn't really add value. Btw newly deployed devices will poll every 5 minutes and then slowly lengthen the polling interval once the device has picked up and deployed all policies.2. If you need an "instant" policy refresh for testing or because a user expects an instant fix, you can manually either trigger the poll/update from within Intune, or ask the user to manually do it from the Company Portal app - which I hope you deploy to all managed devices?
3. A new method of applying policies is currently in preview (AFAIK), where the MDM agent on the device applies policies to the device autonomously, near instantly. I forget what it is called and more details, but this new comm method may address your need for speed. 😁 Also, this new approach can remediate config drift even while offline, based on the last policy set they received. No idea what the status on this is, but stay tuned.
4. Baselines are really best for orgs that have NO or very little M365 capabilities. They set everything up "good enough", but not ideal. Being that: generalized baselines, they do not work for everyone with more specific needs and can even conflict with more specific needs, yes. We as an MSP therefore don't use MSFT Baselines but have our own.
5. Remote app deployment at scale on Windows is ALWAYS half good training, half luck, half experience and half black magic. 😉 There are sooo many different methods of installing apps from sooo many different sources with sooo many different licensing and activation methods and sooo many prerequisites that no single system can address them all. Some companies still use client-server apps leveraging AD that are 10-12 years old, others use modern cloud apps only. As an MSP, I can say that store apps are, by far, the least complicated to deploy. Even updating happens by itself with no interaction needed from us. So we steer customers to store apps whenever possible (for example Affinity vs. Adobe). Legacy AD-based apps are a nightmare in any MDM environment - which is why we don't support hybrid environments.
But I agree that deploying apps via Intune/Autopilot/ESP could use a lot more user-friendly insight. - Jason_Sandys
Microsoft
We constantly strive to improve Intune to meet the needs and requirements of our customers and are always happy to consider feedback and criticism. We fully acknowledge that Intune has evolved and will continue to evolve; i.e., it's still a work in progress and pretty much always will be. Windows and on-prem Windows management products like ConfigMgr grew up together so had the ability to change and grow together, however, there were still many growing pains that most folks don't remember.
We have many (many, many, many) organizations (from the very small to the extremely large) that have successfully adopted Intune for all of their device management needs but again, we are constantly striving to improve. That improvement is a long-term effort though and while we release significant new features every month, we can't do everything as quickly as we would like let alone or awesome customers.
The best suggestion I have to help here is for admins, implementers, IT Pros, etc. to stop comparing what they used to do and how they used to do it when it comes to device management. The world of management has changed as have most (if not all) organizations and thus Intune was/is built to reflect this change. It's not meant to be a one-for-one replacement for ConfigMgr (or any other on-prem management tools). This makes trying to directly translate anything used to do to Intune difficult if not impossible because Intune is itself different. The end result is often the same, but how you get there is different for these reasons.
Thus, I suggest taking a step back to define your actual requirements and work from those instead of trying to translate existing settings, switches, knobs etc. as this will never work. Additionally, the existing configuration in a tool is rarely a reflection of your actual requirements. It's often the subjective interpretation of a lot of undocumented, unknown, temporary, questionable, or confusing requirements by individuals in the past. Until you actually document your requirements though, you'll never truly know.
Yes, this 100% involves effort and change, but it is ultimately the best path IMO to embrace where our focus and investment is at as nearly everything we do and intend to do is cloud-centric or cloud-native. If your organization has other priorities and goals, then you can certainly choose to delay your adoption (or never adopt at all) and we're happy for you to continue to use our existing toolsets that are on-prem centric.
Last comment here on my long-winded reply is specific to the "instant gratification" desire you've called out. We generally recognize this as something we can and should improve on. In general though, this is not required for on-going operations but is instead only impactful during one-off troubleshooting or testing. On-going operations calls for consistency and reliability in general and that's what we've traditionally focused on. Instant gratification expectations can often be managed with users though -- that's not to discount the desire here at all, just to call out the level of emphasis that we have. We're happy to hear feedback on this including specific business impact and examples where your business was impacted by not having this instant realization of configuration.
- Dom_CoteBrass Contributor
There's a LOT of buzz about Bitlocker vulnerabilities. Most involve physically sniffing the encryption keys being read from the TPM to unlock volumes at boot time. Windows accesses the TPM in plain text, but Linux uses encryption for that. What is blocking Windows from also using encryption to read/write the keys from the TPM at boot time?
- arhoheiselCopper Contributor
What is the best way to go about managing modern driver installation from the Windows Store? How can I control when Windows Store Automatic Updates are installed? We use Webex internally and with its dependencies regarding WebView2 and various audio drivers we are constantly receiving calls about Webex crashing during calls because a dependent package was auto updated during the call. Is there a way to set a Maintenace window for the Windows Store? We have not deployed Intune yet.
What is the best solution to manage Windows Store Apps with the retirement of Windows Store for Business?- Dom_CoteBrass Contributor
Good one! 👍 Did you speak to Cisco about this yet? Seems they need to make their updates less disruptive.
- arhoheiselCopper Contributor
Well Webex isn't the app that's Updating so I never really bothered with TAC but maybe I should. Usually a Dolby, Realtek or something of that nature updates while Webex is using the devices associated with it causing the application to crash.
We also have all these devices trying to check store auto updates as soon as they come online so around 8 AM has been extremely disruptive to our network and end users. I tried setting different update window policy's on the systems but nothing seems to affect the Windows Store update window.
Even if I can control a lot of this through Intune, I am unsure if I will be able to set the Update Windows on Store updates to not run right away on startup.
- Dom_CoteBrass Contributor
Thanks for providing Arm64 images for download now. QQ: Will they boot right up on most Snapdragons - like x64 images? Or do they need extensive driver and BSP customization first?
I remember in the early days of Arm64 Windows this was a major challenge, due to the ultra-specific nature of Snapdragons. Has that changed?- HeyHey16KSteel Contributor
+1 on this
- raydomingueCopper Contributor
Intune iOS Enrollment with Managed iOS devices. We have 1 enrollment profile for all of our company iPhones. Using "Setup Assistant with modern authentication" we have to specify 1 carrier activation URL. How are we supposed to handle multiple carrier URLs? And no we don't want to create an enrollment profile for each carrier.